It has been reported in AuctionBytes today that the Internet Merchants Association is considering disbanding.
Ina’s Steiner’s article reveals information coming from within the IMA, this information details an internal rift between board members regarding ”Back Room Deals”, “Transparency” and Ethics. Since I have no contacts within the IMA and I have had no accurate information to report regarding the workings of it’s board, I will refrain from commenting about the specific facts or the problems reported in Ina Steiner’s article. Auction Bytes has done a good job of reporting the news.
Here at the Trading Assistant Journal, we provide relevant commentary on the ecommerce and Internet trade business as a whole. As such a publication, I am inspired to ask one simple question regarding the public dispute within the board at the Internet Merchants Association.
What About The Members?
Has anyone on the board at the IMA considered how the “Internal Strife” and bickering on the board effects the rank & file member merchants who pay good money for a membership. As a member of a trade organization purportedly offering value in the form of benefits, information, networking and education, is bickering and back room deal discussion considered as a benefit or education?
Do the board members at the IMA really think the membership is concerned with internal issues concerning “Back Room Deals” and “Transparency”?
No! the members of any trade organization are simply worried about getting value for the membership dues they pay.
The primary concern of members is in receiving information and benefits from a trade organization, (not available to non-members of that trade organization) which in turn benefits their businesses. Members of trade organizations are business people, business people realize that sometimes to get a deal done one must enter a “back room”. It is all part of business.
The fighting and arguing at IMA, as it appears from the outside, boils down to nothing more than a teenage prepubescent firestorm over he-said she-said and a power struggle to gain control. Do the board members have nothing better to do with their time and the membership’s resources?
This all sounds brutally familiar…
…in fact when recently at eBay Live 2008, I asked Joe Cortese of PeSA about the strange and obsessive mud slinging some board members of IMA have been tossing at PeSA/ECMTA? Joe responded clearly and without rancor that this type of behavior was nothing new to him, in fact when the same people were part of the PeSA board he had to deal with this behavior on a daily basis.
(Some of the senior board members of Internet Merchants Association left PeSA in 2006 complaining about many of the same perceived issues reportedly occurring in IMA today. One wonders if these issues were real then or if they simply left PeSA with these same (now IMA) board members in 2006?)
Joe Cortese seemed to be honestly relieved that certain former members had decided to start their own organization. “This allows the board at PeSA to concentrate on matters more important to our members, we do not have the time to worry about what other trade organizations do or say”.
Joe was honest about his dismay that the rank & file at both organizations had to deal with petty bickering and he was more than happy to not be dealing with it at PeSa any longer. In our conversation, (which was an impromptu interview on the floor at the PeSA pavilion at eBay Live 2008 ) Joe then moved on to positive aspects of his organization without spending any time to address any issues from the past, only looking forward to the future.
I felt Joe Cortese of PeSA answered my query with confidence, he was genuine about not wishing to devote any further resources to matters pertaining to anything certain board members of another organization may or may not say.
PeSA Board - Stock Photo
I am a member of PeSA and ECMTA - I am not a member of IMA.
This was not a researched choice, it was a matter of PeSA actively asking me to join and being interested in my business and my publication. I have found value in my membership and I have enjoyed meeting both board members and the rank & file at Professional eBay Sellers Alliance & the eCommerce Merchants Trade Association.
IMA has never contacted me, other than to send unfounded spam emails from unconfirmed sources to me with accusations about “another” Trade Organization. I am assuming these emails were sent in hopes of getting these unconfirmed accusations published in my blog. At no time has anyone at IMA asked me to join the IMA to experience first hand the real differences between the two organizations or to offer any kind or real world reason as to why I should select one over the other.
I really do not think it should be a one side against the other kind of deal.
All of the members of both organizations are seeking the same information, the same truths, the same values. Members of PeSA/ECMTA and of the IMA are all looking for ways to improve the eCommerce business as a whole and specifically their own business. I see no earthly reason for pitting the members of one trade group against the members of another. I don’t think the board or members at PeSa see any benefit of doing so, but from the emails I have received from the other side, it seems certain people at IMA see it differently.
What is the purpose of bashing competition anyway? Only unimaginative marketers resort to slamming a similar product to promote their own. Sticking to positive messages about your own product is much more effective.
Why Waste Time & Resources on Mud-Slinging?
Why would any board member in either organization waste valuable time, resources or public perception to start a mud slinging nasty fight (either internally or externally) in the public eye? How does this benefit any member?
I want to thank Ina Steiner for presenting a fair article about the troubles at IMA and for detailing the similarities between the current situation at IMA and the previous disruption apparently involving the same and former members of PeSA.
I hope the internal IMA board troubles do not effect the rank & file members of the Internet Merchants Association in any significant way.
Hopefully the board at the IMA will get together and end this negative talk & energy and get on with the business of helping its members. Finding opportunities for merchants is the name of the game. Please, for your members sake, end the fighting and get on with business. If the merchants had wanted to participate in bickering and childish behavior they could do that on the eBay discussion boards for free.
In my short (6 month) time at PeSA & ECMTA I have not seen any kind of discord from the members or the board remotely similar to what was reported in Ina Steiners article, either in person or via the boards. We can only assume the IMA members have not been so lucky.
More information here from a disgruntled ex-member and ethics committee chair of IMA
If you have any information regarding the IMA or its board dispute which should be added to the discussion here at the Trading Assistant Journal, please do so in the comments box below or send a direct message through our contact page.
Scott,
Great insight into this situation.
To begin, with full disclosure, I am a member of ECMTA.
That said, I echo your concerns for the members of IMA. This reported internal strife is certainly distracting to the Board, which has to take away from the tasks they face.
Based on information available, I would have to say that if in fact the President of IMA has been suspended there certainly should be a public statement. If the President has not been suspended, there should also be a statement issued.
As a non-profit trade association, members and the public have a right to know who is driving the bus!
Is pesa still telling its members that it is a non profit organization while it is not ?
No one ever told me they were a non-profit organization, and why would they need to be?
I certainly hope to make a profit, and if they help me do so, they should also in turn make a profit.
Especially when those profits are used to benefit all the members.
Why would anyone worry about the legal organization of a trade based group more than they worry about the benefits gained from joining such a group?
eCommerce is not a non-profit or not for profit activity, at least not in my world.
Recent IMA actions speak far louder than words ever will.
An unhealthy obssession with PESA and “old news” since the formation of IMA. It sort of reminds me of a bad breakup where the other person just can’t or won’t let it go and move on and so bashes the “ex” while claiming to be “over it.” From a business standpoint, it makes an organization look less than professional when they’re constantly obsessed with another group. Take a fiber cracker and let that sheeat go already.
Multiple comm members are suspended as is a BOD
BOD member who sat on ethics comm wasn’t consulted or invited to sit in on the BOD action which overruled the ethics committee decision. Why not? Perhaps the mighty Emperor wanted to stifle dissenting opinions?
2 BODers resign. Resignation of 1 was not made public until nearly a month after the resignation date. Thread announcing 2nd’s resignation was pulled. This isn’t the first time the BOD’s played “musical chairs” with resignation. Ah history, it repeats itself.
Ethics comm posts a thread indicating they disagreed with the BOD on a certain matter and the BOD overruled them. That thread was pulled and the OP was suspended.
IMA President Steve Grossberg has been MIA from IMA boards since 6/30. One has to wonder why as if an issue like this arose, it would see the PRESIDENT would be the first to speak up, wouldn’t it? Then again, if the President’s the 1 who’s been suspended, well then…
Making posts trying to get members to “out” those who post dissenting opinions on blogs (like this 1- wonder how long the “who posted that? stand up and admit it” thread will take)
$100k+ in the kitty and nothing more than vague promises of “good things are coming, really, just wait and see”? Kind of reminds me of Obama and his ch-ch-ch-change platform.
Deafening silence- other than vague attempts at placating members with “we’re working on it and trying to come up with the best course of action”. Tick tock, tick tock yet no announcement?
Scott your correct about business should be given opportunity to profit - except PESA did tell its members that it was non profit while that was not true. Your history with PESA must be short.
From what I understood, PeSa found that legally they would be in a disadvantageous position if registered as a non-profit. This explanation makes sense to me, not that any explanation is warranted.
I pay money to many organizations and groups and unless that group was formed specifically to help starving children or save animals, I usually do not expect them to be non-profit.
If it is such a problem for you, why not comment here with your real name and URL, so someone from PeSA could possibly contact you and explain the organization of the entity. Or simply pick up the phone and ask about it.
Have you ever asked for a direct answer concerning this issue?
I have, and the answer made perfect sense to me. And the answer was given directly and honestly.
I’m so tired of the whole bash PESA thing. Even now while IMA is imploding the dogs have changed from attacking the BOD to now re-attacking PESA because of this blog.
Every conversation, no matter what the topic, is dominated by one or two people on the IMA board and they eventually get around to shooting arrows at PESA, it’s leaders, or one of its members. It’s unbelievable! Even now when things are at their lowest, up pops the same crap in the midst of their own problems.
GET OVER IT! This is the most dysfunctional group I’ve ever belonged to and the sad thing is I’m paying for this!
The accusations that have been lobbed by the leader and several overzealous followers about PESA leaders and members is libelous. This group has been doomed since the beginning, and yet the minions are out posting here bringing up the same old crap. Again, GET OVER IT!
If you want to be a merchant association separate from PESA do it and SHUT UP!
The childish behavior has just become too much to tolerate. Do I care if one group is a non-profit and the other isn’t. NO! As long as I feel I’m a valued member and that certainly isn’t the case with IMA. By the way, IMA, THE MOLE is a TV show and you’re confusing real life with fiction.
What a joke.
Nice article Scott, thank you
If there is $100k in the kitty and the organization is member owned, should the IMA not pay out a proportionate fair share to those who are leaving the group?
Who gets all the money that is supposed to be owned by the general membershio? The board? Mr Grossberg & Mr Mandell?
If I were forced out or even leaving on my own accord, I would insist that I get my share of the non-profit member owned IMA. Do they not have to disburse these funds?
I bet this becomes a field day for lawyers!
Unbelievable. The 6 people were caused the problem have now gotten together and decided all is well and that they can’t tell us what we decided because of confidentiality rules. Oh and they changed rules, but didn’t get a vote of the members let alone, let them in on the discussion. PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK! Ya, real transparency there guys.
The membership was calling for a 3rd party to mediate the problem. Several members stepped up when a BOD member came on whining about all the hours she puts in and how now one else stepped up to, and yet when several said they would not only take her place but offer to be on a committee to act as a third party, none of this took place.
Posts hinting that someone was being turned into law enforcement regarding this implosion is explained away by a BOD member as a mole hill that got made into a mountain. Not answering these serious allegations is unacceptable.
Instead, we get more closed door, back door, clandestine dealings. Again, transparency? And yet two of the most vocal cheerleaders are trying to say this is nothing more than someone or someone’s trying to blast IMA. Saying that people who belong to the group and PESA as well are only staying in IMA to blast them.
Uh, HELLO! The IMA BOD did this to themselves and the renewal time will tell who stays and who leaves this soap opera to those with more time for the IMA fantasy world.
I am an IMA member. I still don’t know what happened. No one will say anything.
I joined IMA in September of last year. I had learned a lot when the groups was a freebie on the ebay group discussion section. I went to the IMA conference in Vegas and it was fun and extremely informative. But that’s about it. Ever since the board went pay-only it has gone completely downhill. Only about 5 people post messages. The group is more concerned with whining about ebay than crafting suggestions. There is more discussion of PESA than business, more discussion of the rules of IMA than any of the benefits, and lately more drama than any real value. I will not be renewing my membership.
What -is- the benefit of IMA? I mean, you don’t get anything. Not even a membership card. The group hasn’t been able to negotiate any sweet deals on shippng supplies, or been able to garner any corporate discounts whatsoever like a real trade group would. It offers a dead discussion board (25 unused “sponsor” forums that sit idle year-round and 1 forum that is like a clubhouse for rude teenagers). I guess you could put their logo in your auctions and risk getting TKOd by eBay (kidding).
Why I am I posting this here? Because if you complain in the IMA forum your post will be deleted and your inbox will be filled with messages from others saying “way to go, I wish I had said that but was too afraid to.”
RIP IMA - It was fun while it lasted.
I am so glad I am a tiny seller and don’t have to worry about this kind of thing. Life is short. Treat others as you would want to be treated and karma will not come around and bite you in your sit-upon.
Everyone has my best wishes for a peaceful and relaxing holiday week-end.
I think the IMA is done. I don’t think anyone will join now and I don’t think many will stay after this. When was the last time anyone posted a message on the boards who hasn’t already been a member for 2+ years. It’s a clique, not a trade group. Who is going to pay money so this clique can have their own dedicated server message board next year? Answer: Not me.
I find your post somewhat surprising, since as long as I’ve been reading your blog, you haven’t made one comment about IMA.
And now, you’ve taken the time to write a rather “slanted” article. One small comment from Ina’s article - “and a few have said they believe the group may be in danger of disbanding” suddenly becomes the sub-head of your post. Responsible journalism at its finest?
Then, despite stating that you really don’t have any facts, you feel pretty free to comment and make some pretty big assumptions. You should be ashamed of yourself.
It might be that the reason there is a complete lack of transparancy in the IMA is because the main players are busy making a back alley money grab as the ship starts to sink.
This just goes to show you that whenever you find so much hooey on the powerseller boards by the IMA board members touting their non profit status - you can take pretty good odds that those are the ones trying to line their own pockets.
Why would a non profit message board group need to collect $100,000 from the members if they were not doing anything to benefit the those same members?
It looks like IMA members may finally be taking off the blindfolds and refusing to drink the cool aid.
There was a thread about the IMA on the eBay PowerSellers message board earlier this year. It sounded great, so I joined. What a waste of $129! I haven’t posted much to their message boards and one of the reasons is that there is a lot of bickering there and who needs enemies when you are trying to network and learn? I was thinking about trying PESA but have heard the same things about them. Is there any good trade group for multi-channel online e-tailers? PESA at least seems pretty established and I think they have international groups in other countries. I thought the IMA was a real trade group, but then I joined and it’s really just about a dozen people trying to put together a trade group and constantly asking for volunteers while criticizing those that offer suggestions. I guess it was a $129 education. Oh well.
To post #16 (eBayAmazonOverstock),
I am a member of PeSA and read nothing but respectful and supportive posts on the forum. It is the only forum I use daily for business focused discussions, current information and a simple “boost” to help keep me focused.
Someone tell BRUCE that PESA has nothing to do with this IMA implosion. I for one am sick to death of these accusations. There is no PESA mole in IMA! Instead of looking inward he is blaming PESA. Unbelievable.
@ Crabby Patty,
Re: I find your post somewhat surprising, since as long as I’ve been reading your blog, you haven’t made one comment about IMA….Then, despite stating that you really don’t have any facts, you feel pretty free to comment and make some pretty big assumptions. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Thanks for your comment Patty,
I stated plainly that I had no internal contacts or information and I also defined this article as a commentary on the situation at IMA, as reported by Auction Bytes. I don’t think anyone who read the opening paragraphs would see it otherwise. I clearly revealed my intentions and my basis of information. The reader can then lend whatever weight to my commentary that they wish.
My entire intent was to point out that the main focus should be on the members of the IMA and not the petty bickering and seemingly paranoid illusions of members of the board (as reported now by numerous other comments from IMA members on this publication).
My comments about PeSA came from direct interviews with its membership and board. I asked these questions because I was curious to see if the PeSA board would spend any time returning the rancor that I have personally witnessed in my email inbox from IMA members towards PeSA - Not one PeSA member even thought it was a worthwhile topic to discuss the IMA accusations towards PeSA, other than to say it was disappointing that the IMA board had nothing better to do.
I did not create this situation, but I feel I am qualified to comment upon it.
I publish a Journal on ecommerce and eBay and both of these trade organizations are involved with these subjects, members from both trade organizations read my publication and this recent event at the IMA was worthy of commentary.
You are correct when you say that I have never mentioned the IMA before in this Journal, I can only respond that I have not had any good information to share with my readers.
We try to stay positive here at the Trading Assistant Journal.
Scott - thanks for your reply. I appreciate it. I’m fairly certain that the Auctionbytes article did NOT focus on ” the petty bickering and seemingly paranoid illusions of members of the board.” Why even add that to your already inflammatory post?
And my “favorite” CYA comment - The fighting and arguing at IMA, AS IT APPEARS FROM THE OUTSIDE (my CAPS) boils down to nothing more than a teenage prepubescent firestorm over he-said she-said and a power struggle to gain control.
Really! How professional that you can just make up stuff and post it under the guise of “news”. Did you work for Faux News in a former life?
I still find it curious that you seem to be stressing this and then using as your rationale (in your response to me) ” as reported now by numerous other comments from IMA members on this publication.” Doesn’t journalism stand on its own, and not use anonymous comments as PROOF fo whatever junk you have just made up?
It’s pretty easy to be brave and post all sort of stuff here under names such as “GonnaQuitIMA” or “IMA Member” (howdy, Jennifer!)
Signed PATRICE
@ Crabby Patty,
I did not make up anything. This “junk” has been reported by multiple other sources and I have simply commented upon the “junk” coming from the board at the IMA.
It appears as it appears, commentary is just that, a reflection of one persons or a group view of an event and the appearances that event reflects. Apparently my view has been shared by many.
The recent event at the IMA appears badly from inside and out. This to all must be apparent, otherwise former promoters of the organization would not now be posting negative opinions in blog posts and articles around the net.
I have never been a promoter of the IMA, but I was also not a detractor. My stance was to refrain from commenting on any part of the muck raking. I left the negative emails in my spam folder to be deleted at a later date because they were not worth repeating. I wonder, the tone seems familiar, have you been sending them?
Any member or former member of the IMA is welcome to post comments here. Please do not mention the need to be “brave” to do so. If intimidation is part of the normal workings at the IMA discussion boards then I am not surprised numerous members of your organization have taken this opportunity to let their feelings and experiences be known here.
If you insist or persist on using any form of intimidation to address my readers, your IP will be blocked from this discussion.
If you have any relevant information to present which contradicts the opinions made by myself or my readers please bring them forth. So far you have only slighted the messenger(s) and furthered the opinion of the outside world that certain factions of your organization act petty and childish.
Is that your intent?
Scott - I am APPALLED that my comments on your blog have now set something in motion in YOUR MIND where you are ASSUMING that I have been sending you negative emails! I just cannot believe that you would post something like that - I am honestly shocked.
“So far you have only slighted the messenger(s) and furthered the opinion of the outside world that certain factions of your organization act petty and childish.”
Unlike yourself, apparently, I cannot speak for the entire “outside world”, so I’m not quite sure how to answer that comment. Is calling into question how you reported this situation “slighting” you? If that is how you feel, so be it.
Somehow you have escalated this situation into something FAR BEYOND what is normal. You are operating on some sort of belief that I am intimidating people, acting petty, sending threatening emails, etc - suggestions that I find extremely upsetting.
Please delete this comments and all my other comments from your blog. And I won’t waste my time here anymore.
@Crabby Patty,
You have questioned my professionalism, called me a liar, tried to intimidate my readers by asking them to reveal their real names. (When it has been commonly reported that if the IMA BOD knows of any member who presents a dissenting viewpoint, that member will be ostracized and exposed to threats and intimidation) and pretty much brought no further information disputing the opinions presented here.
And you are appalled that I would dare to ask you to not do such things on my publication?
I do speak for the outside world, I have merely commented upon the appearances presented by the turmoil at an organization. I do not claim to represent every view in the outside world, but I represent as many as I can. This is why I write and why my blog is followed by numerous interesting and engaging people.
I would not do this if I did not speak for more than myself. I am an observer and a writer and what I have observed of the behavior at IMA has been commented upon in the post above. (the details of which were reported by outside sources). You call into question my right to do so, yet you ardently defend your right to question me or anyone who posts a differing view on my blog.
If this has caused you to choose to stop following this publication I sincerely apologize, but I will not be told what I can and cannot say, and I will not stand for anyone intimidating my readers. You may claim to have not done such a thing, but your words above are proof enough as they have been repeated by multiple members of your organization on other blogs and websites in a very similar fashion. Please do not ask for peoples names in a situation like this, if they wanted anyone to know, they would have published them.
I mean no harm to any member of the IMA. I only wish all of the members the very best in this difficult situation. This was the point of my commentary, to say that the BOD of IMA should concern themselves with the membership rather than petty bickering or whatever it is that has caused this public debacle.
Likewise, I have been in the PeSA forums and there are no members there gloating over any discourse at the IMA. In fact every single comment I have read has been supportive of the membership at IMA and has expressed a sincere hope that everything works out for the best for all involved.
There are a lot of good people in both organizations, and in these times of ever changing rules at eBay and changing markets, we all should be working together to make our businesses better, not fighting over perceived slights and bogus back room deals.
If you would rather spend your time in that kind of drama, I respect your choice. But please do not tell me that I am unprofessional because I disagree with any ones choice to waste time on such things.
Unless the rules and by-laws have been changed drastically in IMA, only 5% of the membership is needed to call a meeting, over-rule the board, recall a board member, etc.
Just a thought.
CrabbyPatty seems to be one of the IMA members who thinks there is no problem, that this whole thing is nothing, that IMA is fine, and that no one should dare mention it. Put your head back in the sand and keep pretending!
The facts are that IMA has been severely mismanaged. This recent episode has only brought all the other issues — dwindling participation from members, an intimidating and clique environment on the message boards, and an ineffective board that thinks they own IMA.
I love how all the IMA people involved in this - the ones who are doing damage to IMA - want everyone to just shut up and move on, even if they run a blog and have freedom of speech. The reason IMA members are posting here is because if we post on IMA we’ll be be deleted, banned, intimidated, insulted, threatened, etc. But the IMA BOD and other syncophants just want to blame the messenger.
Go back and read the comments above. They come from more than one IMA member and they tell the truth. Read it. Digest it. Accept it. CrabbyPatty needs to wake the F up.
The IMA is seriously broken. I don’t know if it will recover, especially with everyone’s annual membership fees coming due in just 6-8 weeks. If I was on the outside and knew this I would never join IMA. I think that is what the board is afraid of… now they want to intimidate blog writers to shut up, too, because they are afraid the dues will stop coming in. They are bullies and their actions are FINALLY coming home to roost. The IMA board made the bed the IMA now sleeps in.
When multiple IMA members, BOD, and sponsors are commenting on blogs and elsewhere, it is silly and false to think any negative posts about IMA are the rants of a “small minority” and it’s even more foolish to think you know which member(s) posted the entries.
When 2 BODs resign in the span of just a few weeks and a 3rd announced her resignation but that thread vanished, it’s something that makes you go hmmmmm….Then again, “revolving BOD” has always been quite common and started back when IMA was still a free trade group hosted on the eBay boards. History: Forget it and blindly dismiss it if you choose, but it will always repeat itself. Then again, people in IMA forget what Ben and Steve did when they were in PESA. Funny, Ben used to be so close to Joe while in PESA….
One last bit of food for thought today: If Steve wasn’t suspended, why won’t he flat out answer the members’ questions about it? Trying to claim that he can’t answer it because it’s “confidential” only fuels the fire. Interesting that Steve returned from “vacation” today, just a few days after… Oh wait, that’s “confidential.” Why are members being cut off from accessing their inboxes in IMA? Why are previously deleted messages reappearing? Why are BODs and members being locked out of forums and comms? Oh wait, sorry, that too is “confidential.” Just remember that when it happens to you CrabbyPatty.
Funny thing about confidentiality: the bylaws and forum guidelines that the BOD keeps trying to use as CYA to not answer members’ many questions say nothing about confidentiality. Non profits usually don’t have executive sessions and don’t keep vital information like the resignation of a BOD secret for nearly a month. Then again, a BOD usually doesn’t “lock out” other BOD members from BOD meetings. Why is there such a great need for the BOD to meet behind “closed doors?” Complete and total transparency? Perhaps the Emperor’s lost his clothes.
Scott says it best:
“Any member or former member of the IMA is welcome to post comments here. Please do not mention the need to be “brave” to do so. If intimidation is part of the normal workings at the IMA discussion boards then I am not surprised numerous members of your organization have taken this opportunity to let their feelings and experiences be known here. ”
And yes Scott, intimidating is part of the normal workings at the IMA discussion boards. When dues come up in September, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see IMA membership tank.
PS, $100k in the kitty and not a single “member perk” that’s not available through other organizations? La la la, hear no evil, see no evil.
DEAN
When multiple IMA members, BOD, and sponsors are commenting on blogs and elsewhere, it is silly and false to think any negative posts about IMA are the rants of a “small minority” and it’s even more foolish to think you know which member(s) posted the entries.
When 2 BODs resign in the span of just a few weeks and a 3rd announced her resignation but that thread vanished, it’s something that makes you go hmmmmm….Then again, “revolving BOD” has always been quite common and started back when IMA was still a free trade group hosted on the eBay boards. History: Forget it and blindly dismiss it if you choose, but it will always repeat itself. Then again, people in IMA forget what Ben and Steve did when they were in PESA. Funny, Ben used to be so close to Joe while in PESA….
One last bit of food for thought today: If Steve wasn’t suspended, why won’t he flat out answer the members’ questions about it? Trying to claim that he can’t answer it because it’s “confidential” only fuels the fire. Interesting that Steve returned from “vacation” today, just a few days after… Oh wait, that’s “confidential.” Why are members being cut off from accessing their inboxes in IMA? Why are previously deleted messages reappearing? Why are BODs and members being locked out of forums and comms? Oh wait, sorry, that too is “confidential.” Just remember that when it happens to you CrabbyPatty.
Funny thing about confidentiality: the bylaws and forum guidelines that the BOD keeps trying to use as CYA to not answer members’ many questions say nothing about confidentiality. Non profits usually don’t have executive sessions and don’t keep vital information like the resignation of a BOD secret for nearly a month. Then again, a BOD usually doesn’t “lock out” other BOD members from BOD meetings. Why is there such a great need for the BOD to meet behind “closed doors?” Complete and total transparency? Perhaps the Emperor’s lost his clothes.
Scott says it best:
“Any member or former member of the IMA is welcome to post comments here. Please do not mention the need to be “brave” to do so. If intimidation is part of the normal workings at the IMA discussion boards then I am not surprised numerous members of your organization have taken this opportunity to let their feelings and experiences be known here. ”
And yes Scott, intimidating is part of the normal workings at the IMA discussion boards. When dues come up in September, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see IMA membership tank.
PS, $100k in the kitty and not a single “member perk” that’s not available through other organizations? La la la, hear no evil, see no evil.
Scott,
Thank you for both allowing the comments for both sides of the “fence” on this topic, but most of all thank you for standing up for writing commentary and not allowing a bully to influence who or how your posts are written. I am not a member of any of these organizations, but have been (and currently am) a member of a BOD of a not for profit organization. And having done so, I know first hand that communication to the people outside the boardroom is a very delicate yet crucial part of keeping the rumors at bay.
It really seems like you hit on a really good topic here, the comments section made for a very interesting read, and after reading them, I had to go back and re-read the original post.
Kudos to you for another great post that invokes some REAL interaction in the commentary!
Keith R. Bloemendaal
Well, if I were a paying member of IMA, I would immediately file a chargeback for any dues I paid this organization. As everyone who has paid for this has gotten ripped off. And you have received nothing for your dues except a lot of nonsense.
Good luck to those who choose to speak up. It’s a risky business.
Oh and PS. Steve’s total disregard for others has been so blatantly apparent. I cannot believe those who joined this organization are just noticing how rude and unprofessional this person is.
INDEPENDENCE DAY? Hardly. Still stonewalling and whining from the BOD. Truly a dark day and one that will break IMA. Being told the membership is needy and selfish by Ben is just too arrogant. Treating membership like this is appalling.
Then the president mysteriously reappears and we find out HE is ALSO the Treasurer. Hmmmm…..now, why wasn’t this disclosed sooner? He also squashes the one person who was going to tell what happened, Larry.
They also defined what transparency is - by comparing IMA to PESA. This after several member’s have asked that it stop, something they’ve been asking for for months, but Ben & Steve just don’t get it.
We’re being told to, “stop fueling the fire”, it’s confidential and we’ve taken care of it. Oh, and we changed the rules so we don’t have to tell you.
Now rumors are that Steve, Cathy, and Ben have done something that deserves this huge cover-up and cease and desist order has arrived to stop them from talking. Yea, right. I don’t believe a word that comes out of there. Your glass tower in crumbling and you’re looking for safe place. Your IMA cheerleader Bruce is even changing sides. You’re loosing it and as someone said so eloguently, you can save yourself or you can save IMA. Ben, Cathy & Steve, which is it going to be?
By the way, http://aswas.typepad.com/hall_of_fame/2008/07/my-ima-experien.html
Could be unrelated but sounds like the suspended chair is speaking once again here: http://www.agenius-marketing.com/wp/dealing-with-security-and-phpbb-forums-%E2%80%93-is-someone-trying-to-hack-your-website/
I DARE Steve to offer members COMPLETE refunds if they feel they’ve not found value in IMA. I know I’d JUMP AT THE CHANCE to take my money and leave.
What a farce. It continues. Now Steve has turned against Larry. IMA’s demise is coming because Steve would rather see it ruined than to step down. I hope both people who are threatening lawsuits file them. They have every right to.
http://sportinggoodsusa.blogspot.com/
My reply to the blog above:
Sadly Debbie, you weren’t the first person he did this to. He’s attacked many and gotten away with it, both on the IMA Board and on the PS Board. I’m just glad you stood up to him where others were torn apart by his minions. Reputations were ruined and people are afraid to post on either board. How do I know? I’m one of them. Post my name? No way, I’m done being a target. But, the paranoia will take over and he’ll be sure he knows who it is, but I am one of many.
I would love a complete refund of my dues as well. Steve is obviously at fault for this entire mess which isn’t surprising since he’s continually displaying his megalomania on the forums that cost us $129 for the dubious privelege of reading.
[...] July 5, 2008 by Scott Pooler I was wrong. In my previous article about the IMA Board of Directors, I said I did not know anyone who was involved with the IMA or had any information about the internal workings of the board or ethics committee. It seems Debbie Levitt of AS WAS had intimate knowledge of the situation which developed causing a rift between the IMA board and it’s own ethics committee commented upon in a previous article here on the Trading Assistant Journal. [...]
I have just heard from a couple of IMA mods that Steve has asked for Larry’s removal from the BOD due to Larry’s actions being illegal according to Florida laws (which I suspect is pure bunk like the “confidentiality” that Steve is hiding behind is bunk.)
Steve’s megalomania knows no bounds. I think Steve should be the one being removed for goodness sakes.
Well, it appears we’re about to have an announcement that Steve is resigning. Won’t change a thing for me. IMA will still be run by him in the background and the bullies will still rule the board. Too little, too late. How about that refund? Still looking for it.
Oh, the resignation will be because he’s reevaluted his life an realizes he’s spending too many hours on IMA and wants to spend more time with his family and on his business. Way to try to save face instead of just coming clean.
If I hear one more BOD complain about all the hours they put in I’m going to scream. Remember, this is the VOLUNTEER organization YOU WANTED. If he doesn’t resign I suspect they’ll hire someone to oversee it. Way to spend the money and stick to the original ideals. People don’t volunteer, or have quite volunteering, BECAUSE of the way they’re treated. GET A CLUE!
Ben has got to go too. Otherwise, you are correct. It will just be more of the same.
Those “poor me” posts were a tad hard to stomach. Does Steve really believe than anyone will fall for the “time with my family” BS (other than the usual sychophants)?
Steve realizing he wants to “spend more time with his family”? ROFLMAO Reminds me of CEOs who have that “epiphany” right before they’re charged with things like insider trading. I believe Steve’s “reevaluated his priorities” as much as I believe he was “on vacation”. Funny how his “vacation” coincided EXACTLY with the suspensions. Seriously, the BOD must think its members are idiots.
As for complaining about volunteers, it ges old, particularly when people CHOOSE to volunteer AND when several people who volunteer to volunteer are repeatedly ignored.
I love it when the BOD volunteers claim to put in 40 hours per week. HA! I’d love to see an accounting of that time. 8 hours a day and the IMA has accomplished nothing as a trade group, signed no deals for members, and now somehow has $78K in cash sitting in the bank. I smell something rotten (and it’s not Bruce’s old posters).
Hmmm…meglomaia…I used that term on my blog. To be fair to Steve and other board members, they did put in tons of hours. Unfortunately, Steve is too big to apologize. That is simply what it boils down to. The meltdown nedn’t have occurred. What a waste….
The boards have been put on “zero tolerance policy” and previous posts removed just in time for all the members returning from their July 4 holiday to miss seeing. The posts are going to be reinstated after all “offensive” posts are removed which means the threads will have nothing but sycophantic posts remaining. LOL What a joke!
It appears to me that Steve threatening Larry was merely a device used to get him to agree to shut up. Basically, Steve caused this mess, but still got his way. His suspension was shortened, while Deb’s was not. Nor did he make a public apology for lying about Deb and trying to ruin her business. Lanae and Kim are still no longer BOD members which pleases Steve since he needs members that have lips permanently affixed to his arse to get away with his high-handed tactics.
So much for “transparency”, eh? I will not be handing any more money over to the IMA and am considering demanding a full refund. I have never seen a more unprofessionally run group and am embarrassed to have ever been a member.
I am certain that the sponsors will run from the IMA after this coupled with the dismal ROI they received at the first and only IMA event held last year in Vegas. Attendance at that event was overblown by counting the gift merchandise buyers who attended a few lame IMA sessions with boring content. eBay did show up by having one jr. management level employee in attendance.
I think that if we all group together to demand a refund of our rightful portion of this member owned non-profit pile of dung, it will be over. The sooner the better. Perhaps if we start a
“who wants their money” thread on the IMA boards they will let the thread stand and cash us out. Otherwise, we need to start the thread elsewhere to unite and demand a cash-out.
I have never seen a more unprofessionally run group and am embarrassed to have ever been a member.
You got that right. The idea of putting an IMA logo on your auctions or website sounds like suicide.
I am certain that the sponsors will run from the IMA after this coupled with the dismal ROI they received at the first and only IMA event held last year in Vegas.
No doubt. I was one of the 9 people who attended the Endicia presentation in a room set up for 250. They and all the other sponsors have empty forums. All the corporate sponsors will be gone, at least on a financial level. I wonder if CA will stay - Scot has been oddly silent.
I wanted the IMA to work and more importantly I hoped this would blow over. But now they have announced censorship to be the RULE. Goodbye IMA.
It’s a scary place over there right now and given that there’s a whole lot of thread-shredding going on, what are we to believe? Someone has something to hide.
I don’t see a refund in the future, I see a lot of money being shelled out to a lawyer because of the someone’s inability to keep the old ego in check and others following blindly to cover it up.
And no, I wouldn’t dare post anything about it there.
If anyone is considering adding your name to the hat for one of the BOD positions make sure you are aware of what you will face.
You must agree with the almighty trio, on everything. If you disagree they will ignore you, or will force you to shut up. So it’s a simple job really, you just need to be a YES MAN and you’ll qualify.
IF YOU WISH TO CANCEL YOUR IMA MEMBERSHIP and paid with PAYPAL be sure to cancel your subscription there.
1) Log into your PP account
2) Go to your profile
3) Click Paylist (under FINANCIAL INFORMATION)
4) Find the IMA listed and follow the links to unsubscribe.
This will assure that you will not auto pay them on your renewal date. If you do not do this and pay on your renewal date you will NOT get a refund, because they do not do refunds, or trials. It’s against one of the many laws that they like to quote.
I received this sad news this afternoon. It seems that the IMA BOD has managed to run off every board member that does not back up their decisions. Unfortunately, that is not to be. I certainly understand Larry’s reasoning even though I am deeply disappointed. Frankly, I marvel that he has managed to deal with this situation without having a stroke as long as he has.
The following is the email I received:
Here’s what I sent earlier today to about 18 IMA members. It includes my resignation notice, which was pulled within 5 minutes of me posting it. The mods never replied to my original request this morning (about 5 hours ago) asking them to approve the post before I issued it.
There is nothing that prevents my post from being posted. The bylaws state:
A Director may resign at any time by giving written notice to the Board, the President or the Secretary of the Association. Unless otherwise specified in the notice, the resignation shall take effect upon receipt thereof by the Board or such officer, and the acceptance of the resignation shall not be necessary to make it effective.
I posted in the Board Forum immediately after posting in the Member Forum. There is nothing that says I can’t post in the members Forum. This is a complete and total suppression of our ability to communicate. It’s a totalitarian organization being run by a megalomaniac.
Not sure what to do at this point. Probably just time to call it quits.
We’ll certainly stay in touch.
Larry
—– Original Message —–
From: Larry Phillips
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:06 PM
Subject: My Resignation from the Board
Hello all,
This email is going to a lot of current and former IMA members who have sent expressions of support this past week (I bcc’d 18 people on this). First off, thank you for your support. I have not told the Board this yet, and this is NOT official, but I intend to resign from the Board of Directors, hopefully today. I have written the following resignation, which I intend to post in the general Forum. I have first submitted it to the moderators, to ensure that I am not in violation of any posting guideline. I will wait a while for their approval before I post, but will go ahead anyway if I don’t hear, because the bylaws do not say anything about confidential issues relating to a Board member or their resignation. Here is the post:
It is with great regret that I tender my resignation from the Board of Directors. There is a fundamental philosophical difference between myself and the other Board members. I believe that there should be a body of some sort that has the power to review certain decisions without any involvement of the Board of Directors. The other Board members disagree.
Based on that fundamental philosophical difference, I am unable to remain on a Board who believes that they should be the ultimate authority for all actions and decisions, without any sort of reasonable check and balance in place. I therefore tender my resignation from the Board effective immediately.
I will remain an active IMA member, and still believe that there is an excellent future for the IMA. Please feel free to call on me with any comments or questions.
I’m tired of fighting these people. They believe that they were elected, and can do whatever they want. They have indicated that they don’t care what the members think about certain items. They consistently hide behind a veil of confidentiality and secrecy. If I don’t take this action myself now, they will quickly find a way to remove me for some trumped up charge.
I don’t need this crap any more. My business has suffered significantly. I am now outnumbered 3-1 on the Board. My wife just walked into the room fuming, as she heard me on the phone with Steve yelling and screaming. This is not good for me, my family, my health or my business.
Hopefully, my thread won’t get pulled, but I have sent you this to make sure that the message gets out. Thank you all for your support.
Larry
NOTICE OF SPECIAL MEETING OF IMA
This special meeting is called to take place July 6,2008 and
commencing on July 10,2008. Please send this notice to all IMA
members. The meeting will take place at
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/imembers/
[...] Scott Pooler Recently (Sunday - July 6th) information was added to the comments section of our recent article concerning the troubles within the board of directors at the IMA (Internet Merchants [...]
We now believe that it is in the best interest of the membership of the IMA to begin filing complaints with the Economic Crimes Division of the Florida Attorney General’s Office.
We want them to receive multiple complaints tomorrow. You can fill out the complaint report by going here:
[url]
http://myfloridalegal.com/Contact.nsf/Contact?OpenForm&Section=Economic_Crimes/url
The official address of the IMA is :
Internet Merchant Association
11792 Osprey Point Circle
Wellington, FL 33449-8367
phone: 561 615-1471
The three remaining Board members are:
Steve C. Grossberg
sgrossberg@budgetvideogames.com
Ben Mandell
ben@avianaorlando.com
Cathy Aggelopoulos
info@visibilityunlimited.com
Under question or comment, you should state that The Internet Merchants Association is a Florida Corporation.
The primary complaint is that a Special Meeting was called by the membership to be held online, since IMA members are located throughout the US, Canada and the United Kingdom. After the meeting was announced, the Board of Directors changed the bylaws regarding where the meeting could be conducted, in an attempt to stop the meeting. Please note in your complaint that 3 of the 6 remaining Board of Directors resigned from the organization in the last 4 days.
If you prefer, you can call the Florida Attorney General’s Office at 850-414-3300.
We need as many of you as possible to file this complaint. We believe the actions of the Board of Directors to be illegal, and need to make sure that we have multiple reports into the Florida Attorney General’s Office, so that it gets the appropriate attention.
Board of Directors and Moderators - Please note that any removal or modifications to this post may be legally considered as grounds for obstruction of justice.
I received a refund of my IMA dues today. I have been kicked out so I cannot vote against the board. Sad…
It appears the by-laws have been re-written once again - so that the current acting board members can remove members, posts, and whatever else they feel they need to do to shut up the masses of people that do not agree with them.
This isn’t going to stop anytime soon, and when it does stop all that will be left is a shell of an organization that had the original ability to be great.
[...] President of AsWas and a central figure in the controversy - My IMA ExperienceScott Pooler, of the Trading Assistant Journal has been covering the story and has several posts.I've searched the Internet and as yet have not [...]
Ahhh… and tonight the expensive law firm of Blah, Blah and Blah, ordered by the self-absorbed Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler et al come into the equation. Holy smoke! He has some mighty deep pockets to throw around.
He’s also asking members to report all blogs, websites, threads and any member who dares to put a word in text any of this off the IMA forums. Ouch, not exactly what I signed up for. It’s beyond embarrassing and it’s sad and funny at the same time.
I know I’ll sleep well tonight but then again, I’m not a big bully playing with other people’s money.
I guess, since I am not a member… I can’t report myself…
What will the president of the IMA do with this information?
I think we have been found out already, no one need report the Trading Assistant Journal.
[...] Grossberg, I implore you to read my first Article ever about the [...]
You know what I find truly sad and almost unforgivable–many of you members watched the head of IMA and other IMA members insult and rip apart posters on the powerseller board repeatedly in the past year or so. Each time there was a thread started on the powerseller board regarding IMA, other powersellers would ask direct questions or make comments, and instead of being treated with respect and in a professional manner, they were degraded, insulted, belittled and ravaged by the head of IMA and other members. No one came to their defense. Now you are all screaming at how rude the head of IMA is??? After it was clear how horrible he was to innocent posters asking simple questions about IMA? Sorry, but all of this sudden awakening is long overdue and doesn’t say much about the membership to begin with. And I will never trust or respect the people who sat around and just watched innocent posters get ripped apart for no reason at all.
So, I have a question for all of you innocent victims of this IMA mess. Who is more guilty???? the head of IMA and other members who were rude and nasty, or the members of this group/cult who just sat around and watched others be ripped apart on their on private board and on the powerseller board over the past year?
If you sat around and just watched, you closed your eyes and sold your soul just to belong to this group/cult!
Going about this the wrong way. To be a non profit trade organization that said organization must not show special treatment to any member. If there is any evidence that this is happening, and since the IMA is a non profit organization, that might be a better way of pursuing this.
The constant comments and bashing (true or not) about Steve and Ben (personal in nature and potentially damaging to their reputation) is a distraction. If you want change focus on the organization of the IMA and go from there.
I could not agree more. This must get out of the realm of the personal and into the realm of good business practice, standard non profit management, adherence to ethics, possible conflicts of interest, etc. etc. etc focused solely on IMA. Checking out both FL law and US law and seeing what is required in non profit management and what may or may not have been done in this instance is the professional way to go and the way to succeed. Look at what is legally required and then look at what was done in the organization…dispassionately rather than personally. When you get personal and stay personal, then you can’t win what you wish to win here.